Comments on: Mindfulness: The Best Bang for Your Buck, Part I

By: shamash

shamash — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:15:36 +0000

Dear Kirsten,

Thank you for the article. I’m trying to find texts that link mindfulness with positive psychology. I’d appreciate if you or anyone else knows of any such work. Your article is a great start – I especially liked the diagram you found.

best wishes,
Shamash

By: Kirsten Cronlund

Kirsten Cronlund — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 00:02:25 +0000

I appreciate your thoughts, Scott.

You make a really important point – that the power of these interventions is in finding language and understanding that is personally meaningful to each practitioner. It goes along with the “one size does not fit all” approach of the leaders in the field of PP.

Kirsten

By: Scott

Scott — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 00:57:39 +0000

Kirsten and Wayne,
Thanks for your clarification. I agree that we need to focus on the active ingredients and find ways that people fit them into their lives comfortably. I’ve also been told that mantras and even meditation is from the devil (He/she must be very active to make meditation diabolical). However I’ve found that identifying the language and understanding of a person unlocks the place that meditation can exist. Even the 30 day silent retreat I went on (it was initially terrifying to think about) was extremely powerful because the director identified my need to accomplish something and helped me accomplish “not accomplishing.” Great psychology. I’ve found that the key to assisting others to experience the powerful of mindfulness meditation is to place it in their context, language and understanding. Thanks Kirsten, now you’ve got me really thinking.

By: WJ

WJ — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:51:50 +0000

Scott, one of the techniques I teach peeople is a mantra. In one workshop I had a woman with a strong religious background take exception when I suggested that a prayer is similar to a mantra. Her belief system suggested that mantras were of the devil. She tried the mantra exercise and sure enough it didn’t work for her (we use software that measures calmness to test this). I waited a couple of hours and asked the group to pick some significant words (I gave the example of a few words from a prayer)and repeat them slowly to themselves. She picked some words from the rosary and guess what – it worked. She now routinely uses what she calls the “speed rosary” as a calming technique.

I am always astounded about the number of people who come up to me at the end of a workshop and say how what I’ve said fits with their spiritual practice – particular when its science (not spirituality) that drives what I do.

By the way changes to breathing are also another feature common to prayer and mantras. See http://www.innate-intelligence.com.au/blog/?p=155.

By: Kirsten Cronlund

Kirsten Cronlund — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:56:25 +0000

Thanks, Scott, for your very salient points.

I think the ideas you outline – specifically that so many religious traditions have meditative practices that often involve mantras and chanting – point out the universality of meditation and mindfulness. I am not a historian, so I have no idea which practice began first (although I suspect it began in the East and spread from there, but I could be wrong…), but that’s perhaps less the issue than the fact that science has been able to identify at least some of the active ingredients in meditation practice.

I agree with you that we run the risk of dismissing really powerful “interventions” when we sidestep religion and all that it has to offer. Spirituality is an important part of my life, and my mindful approach to life is certainly made richer because of my faith. We can’t, however, assume that to be true for everyone (and I know you know this, and that you’re not suggesting that we do). So I think the way for us to be able to do the most good for the most people is to focus on those basic active ingredients. From there it’s effective to find out what IS most meaningful to each individual – whether religion or a close relationship, or membership to some other life-giving organization – and to help him or her bring that meaning into his or her mindfulness practice.

I really appreciate your thoughts, as always, Scott.

Kirsten

By: Scott

Scott — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:14:59 +0000

Kirsten, Jeff and Wayne
Great dialogue. Just a couple of thoughts. It would be fascinating to see where and when the tag “mindfulness mediation” became linked to eastern religion. Historically many religions had practices that accomplished the same thing, but did not call it “mindfulness mediation.” The Orthodox Catholics had the Jesus prayer, most of christianity had the centering prayer, the Jews have an extensive mystical tradition and practice, even the native americans had mediation practices to put them more in touch with the universe. Heck, though initially the Rosary was created for illiterate Catholics because they couldn’t read the breviary, eventually it also became a meditative practice. So, to link mindfulness mediation exclusively to eastern religion is missing a broader perspective.
Also, I have to defend religion for a moment. The vast majority of religions in the world essentially promote the same ideas as positive psychology and social justice. It is not so much religion that is the problem but religious disciplines (the practices added on by later followers), religious organizations and overly zealous disciples. The studies show that people who have a connection to a church usually are happier and if they grew up in a household that regularly practiced religion (even if they give it up later in life) they are happier than those who had no religious practice.
Sorry for the detour from the main topic of mindfulness, but I felt I had to jump in on this. Kirsten, I’m looking forward to the next part of your series.

By: Kirsten Cronlund

Kirsten Cronlund — Sun, 15 Mar 2009 23:37:39 +0000

Wayne,

Thanks for the reminder that meditation is not the only pathway to mindfulness. I’ll be addressing this a bit in Part 2 tomorrow.

Kirsten

By: Kirsten Cronlund

Kirsten Cronlund — Sun, 15 Mar 2009 23:34:33 +0000

Wow, Jeff! A thrill ran through you? That’s pretty cool!

I have been studying mindfulness for a long time, so it’s easy for me to forget that not everyone has the scientific background on the topic that I have. Thanks for reminding me of the importance of getting this out to the public.

You’re right that mindfulness is a technique. It’s a technique that for some is imbued with religious significance, but for others is simply a technique that helps them to function as highly as possible in their lives. Either approach is valid.

I’m glad you found this article useful. I’ll be curious about your take on Part 2 tomorrow.

Kirsten

By: WJ

WJ — Sun, 15 Mar 2009 19:27:02 +0000

Jeff, I have to agree with your observations about religion. But why “throw the baby out with the bath water”. It’s useful to focus on why things work.

Mantras work as they are a focusing tool that generally evoke positive emotions – if you are interested see a blog article that I wrote. http://www.innate-intelligence.com.au/blog/?p=425

By the way meditation is only one pathway to mindfulness. There are others that are easier for most people.

By: Jeff Dustin

Jeff Dustin — Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:23:41 +0000

“Mindfulness…” is one of your most educational and practical articles to date, Kirsten. I must say a thrill ran through me as I read your work. This is no joke. I actually felt somewhat in awe of what you’ve done here. I used to perceive mindfulness as quackery, something between the acupuncture and herbal remedies aisle of my whole foods store. The word itself is rife with problems for me because of its connections with Eastern religion. Yet the concept, put so succinctly by Garland (et al.) and restated by you, is has potential for practictioners.

My knee-jerk unmindful reaction to “mindfulness” the word is to think of half-baked toga touting mystics banging rocks and chanting mantras. I’m not one to seek emptiness. This review of the term makes it much more palatable.
Mindfulness is a technique.

I wish we could use a more specialized term to avoid confusion with Eastern religious practices. More people might cozy to the concept if PPND called it something else. Great article!